Holding Knowledge, Sharing Wisdom

In this episode, we speak with Charlene Joseph, a lifelong educator and respected community member from Moenkopi. Charlene shares her journey growing up in Moenkopi, where she was raised on her maternal side—a connection that deeply roots her in the land and its traditions. A retired special education and elementary teacher, Charlene dedicated 28 years to the Tuba City public schools, shaping countless young lives with compassion and commitment. Now a proud mother, grandmother, and great-grandmother, she reflects on the importance of family, culture, and education in building strong communities.

This podcast shares Indigenous stories of resilience and mental wellbeing during and after COVID-19. Hear from first responders, educators, traditional knowledge holders, and recovery community members as they reflect on challenges, lessons, and culturally grounded healing. Each episode also highlights local resources for Indigenous communities in northern Arizona.

Created by NAU’s Center for Community Health and Engaged Research (CHER) with Hopi and Navajo Tribal members. Funded by Project HOPE.

We would like to acknowledge Dr. Darold Joseph for sharing his beautiful flute recordings with us. It brought a meaningful dimension to the podcast and his artistry is sincerely appreciated.

Resources: https://linktr.ee/voicesnativenations

Transcript

Melinda Smith: 0:02

Hello and welcome to Voices of Native Nations in the Southwest during the COVID-19 pandemic. I'm Melinda Smith, and in this series, we're speaking with community members who stepped forward in unique and powerful ways during the pandemic. These conversations will highlight the lived experiences of traditional knowledge holders and practitioners, first responders, educators, and members of the recovery community from Native nations in the Southwest. Their stories offer wisdom, strength, and lessons for our communities and future generations. Today I'm honored to welcome Charlene Joseph, a traditional knowledge holder from the Hopi community. Charlene, thank you for taking the time and joining us and sharing your story. Could you begin by telling us who you are and about your role and your connection to your community before and during the COVID-19 pandemic?

Charlene Joseph: 1:04

Hello, my name is Charlene Gawan Viyama Joseph. I am originally from Moenkopi, where I was born and raised, and we follow our maternal side of the family, so this is considered my home. I have family in both villages. I have three children, Garrett, Daryl, and Carrie. And I have six grandkids and three great-grandkids. And I am a retired special education and elementary education teacher. And I've worked here with the uh public schools in Tuba City for about 28 years before I retired. So I've got a lot of background in special education basically. Also, living here on Hopi is very special in the way where when we're doing ceremony, we always have to get involved because this is our way of life and it's hard, hard labor, but in the end it's all worth it because we are not performing these ceremonies just to be doing them for fun or pleasure or just for enjoyment. But the real deep part of it is that we do pray for moisture because as Hopi's we have been farmers since time immemorial. And up to today, we are still farming our lands because the Hopi way of life is really corn. Everything we do is based around corn. So every ceremony, no matter if it's social or real sacred ceremonies, we're always praying for a moisture for during the summer. We pray for rain in the springtime, and then when it starts to get to the winter time, we pray for snow. And that's all connected to keeping our lands moist. So when the men are ready to plant the grounds, the land will be nice and moist for the plants, for the seeds to be planted, and that we will have a bountiful harvest. So that's what Hopi is all about. And Hopi does not just pray for Hopi. Hopi prays for all the living beings, the human beings, the animal life, all the elements that surround us, that take care of us daily, like our mother earth, the sun, air, even the wind, all the elements that have us to survive here. That's what we are about. So we don't leave anyone out of our prayers. We pray for the whole world when we have social or sacred ceremonies. So here I'm fortunate enough to be a part of that because um I'm also married to a Hoppi from Second Mesa from my dad's village of Sungopavi. That's the only village where they still have the whole Hoppi calendar in its working order for the whole year for the Hoppi way of life. So I've been going there since I was a baby because my dad was also one of the priests. So we were constantly going to Sungopavi, and then when I married my husband, it just continued. And then so my kids, we were always going over there to participate and to support, you know, my husband and their father and the rest of the family, and of course, the village in many ways, not just with cooking, but you know, with heartfelt prayers and just being there to feel that sacred knowledge that they do for us. And it's very kind of real deep in the heart when you understand Hopi, especially because when you hear singing the songs, they're talking about something. So when you understand Hopi, it's really heartfelt. So I've I'm always I was very fortunate to have grown in a time where I could I learned my language and I participated in many ways with Hopi. And so today I still carry those things on for my family, for all our grandkids in my extended family and village members and friends. And you know, I I really take that to heart for them, especially, because that's who we are. You know, we're Hopi and we have a certain responsibility here. And so that's how my traditional knowledge is. You have to live that to really learn. If you don't live it, it's really not the same because you don't really understand what goes on, or even preparation way ahead of time. You know, we it's not just on the day of that we prepare or the day before, which we call totokea, the day before ceremony. It like happens like maybe two months because we have to make big, you know, hopi foods, get it ready. And also the week before is probably the hardest because we have to make our own harmonies to harmony, and then we, you know, continue to make other things to feed people. And because we're a communal type of people, we invite everybody into our homes that come from other villages, especially relatives. They'll come and we feed everybody all day long. If it's a two-day dance, we have lots of food on the table to feed them, to invite them in to eat because that's how hopies do it. We're a very hospitable tribe. It's not easy, it's hard, but in the end it's all worth it because you always earn something back. Whatever work you put out, it comes back. And then their prayers, you know, are answered a lot of times. And it just, you know, gives you gratitude, you know, said, Wow, we accomplished this again, you know. So it's okay, we're tired for two, three days after we can always get rest, you know. But then, and then maybe wait for a few months or maybe a few weeks, and then something else comes up, especially in my husband's village, because they have the whole calendar still intact, and there's something every month, maybe two or three things during a month sometimes. And in between that, we have like weddings, engagements, baby namings, and other stuff that go on. So those are all the things that I grew up with. So I'm very strong that way. And I'm trying to teach my kids, but I know to in life today is different. It's very different, you know. Like we have this, what we're doing right now, Zoom. You know, we didn't have those things. We didn't have television, we didn't have running water, you know. We had to go get water, we had to chop wood, we had to go look. Well, we even went to look for wild plants, you know. But now these these days, and we played outside. We went climbing the hills around here. And, you know, nowadays kids are in the house on their laptops or on Facebook or games, and they're not out there exploring, you know, like how I grew up. So that's a big difference, you know, that uh, but they still do participate, you know, in the ceremonies, which is really good to see, you know, and some of them are really trying hard to come back to that experience that as a Hopi. So that's good to see that. Really, it really makes you feel good. So that's my tradition, always working with corn, making cornmeal, making biki, somiviki, all our Hopi foods. And then the girls are willing to learn, you know, the boys are willing to learn. So, like last night, my son brought home fresh corn from the field, and not many people have corn anymore because it hasn't been raining. So, those are the things that our tradition holds for the Hopi people. Some of the things. There's a lot more. It just never ends.

Melinda Smith: 8:56

Well, thank you for sharing, you know, your who you are and your deep connection to your Hopi roots. It's inspiring to hear how, you know, walk of life, farming, language, and food and these ceremonial dances uh play such a central role in your life. Thank you for your dedication and years as an educator and your efforts. What did you learn from the pandemic in your role as a traditional knowledge holder in your community?

Charlene Joseph: 9:24

To begin with, you know, it was a very scary thing to go through. You know, at first I didn't accept it and I was thinking, wow, you know, it's not gonna come here that bad, you know, trying to, you know, not wanting to acknowledge that it really is here, and it was a very serious, you know, sickness. And but then uh all of a sudden it hit me, you know, when you know, you don't I didn't see any because I live close to the highway here. We get a lot of traffic and it was quiet, hardly any vehicles going through. It felt like doomsday, you know, that what when I first hit me, just was a terrible, terrible feeling. But then I thought about, you know, what our elders told us, you know, um, because we're not respecting the environment, we're not respecting Mother Earth, we're not respecting the elements that take care of us here every single day, every single night, and they're alive, you know, they're watching us, how we're behaving here. So all those things came back to me. You know, I went through that, and one of the things they were telling us that someday nature's gonna fight back. And it could be through wind, it could be through fire, it can be through flood, it can be a sickness that's gonna come and take many people. And maybe, they said, maybe only two, three people will survive, and then they're gonna start life all over again. Those are the things that came back to me, what our elders used to talk about. And one day I took some um fresh beans down to my cousin's sister from the fields, and she uh said the same thing to me. Wow, you know, we never knew this was going to happen in our time. No, this is what our elders have already talked about, but I didn't think it would happen in our time now, you know, but it did. So that wasn't a very good feeling at all, you know. It was very scary. And it it felt like I was all alone, you know, like I can't even go visit my sisters or even my cousins without wearing a mask or just go drop something off for them, or they can't come here, or one day we went walking at the fields, me, my granddaughter, and one of my uh other sisters, grandson, our grandson, and a day later, then my sister calls me and she said, Um, Shar, I said, My grandson has uh COVID, and then this feeling of fear just rendered my whole body, and I didn't know how to feel. I got so scared, and I was more scared for my granddaughter because she was walking right next to him, and they we got tired, so they were sitting down on the side of the dirt rope for a while, just talking and laughing, and all those things came back with how we were in connection that day over at the field area walking, but boy, that fear, you know, then I I got so mad, you know. I and I started cussing to him. I thought, damn, you know, I said, why, you know, Kara better not get sick, and you know, and she was right by him, and it was it was a very terrible feeling, but she didn't get the COVID then, so you know, it was very grateful, but just that feeling, you know, and your my whole body just went real funny, just a real awful feeling. And then my aunts over at my dad's village from my dad's side, my guess and one of my father's, they all passed away around this maybe a week within each other. Five of them. My the daughter, young daughter, and then my ga'a, she was older, she's probably about 80 something, and another daughter, she's yet a little younger than me, and then my father, he's about a little younger than me, and then there was another one, but from that same family, from my dad's sister's kids and grandkids, they all passed like within a week, two weeks after one another, and it was not good. And I couldn't even go over there. I wanted to go see them, but you know, this COVID kept me away. You know, it's like, so how do we do this? How do we deal with this when something like that happens? We can't even go see family anymore. Like I said, you feel all alone and you can't even connect with them anymore, you know, in physically to be in that present or them being in my presence. Because in Hopi, we do that. We when someone passes on, we go over there and we support them that way just by being there with them and you know, helping with things and making food. And we couldn't even do that. And so poor thing, they're gonna, they're feeding themselves and they're not feeling happy, you know, and they're doing all this for themselves, you know, and and it just felt like a real void, you know, it's terrible. And it seemed like it just took away a lot from our culture, you know. So what I started doing was um, I would still do my corn, you know, and because it's a long process to make cornmeal, and I started cleaning my house, you know, detail, all my cupboards, everything. I was just cleaning, cleaning, cleaning, trying to pass time like that. So my mind wasn't on all these deaths that were going on because other family members died. And out here we had a lot of village people that passed on, sometimes husband and wife, you know. And so that's what I did. And then prayers, prayers, you know, every morning at night, I would go out and pray for, you know, don't take any more people, don't take any more of my family. Please, you know, guard my children, my grandkids, family, just everybody. No one wants to lose a family member to this COVID. Let's let it go away. You know, these are the ways I would pray in the morning with my cornmeal outside. But it took a long time for that part that that seems like that was that first part that we all had to go through, you know, that fear, that scary, those scary moments and just worry, worry. And uh so I think that was the first part. And then when these vaccines started coming up, you know, we um I we did our shots, you know, just hoping that those things worked, which I'm I did for my whole, my family my own family, you know, because we we did get COVID, you know, we and I had it like maybe three or four times, but I didn't ever really get sick, maybe headache, I didn't really feel much sickness, like some people. I guess they get real sick, but I didn't do that. And I don't think my famil my family members got really sick like that, as except my daughter. She got really sick, but she didn't get it that first time, she got it way later, and she got really sick. So that was scary. But that was like kind of the first phase, I think, of the whole thing. But a lot of praying, you know, and calling and just keeping in contact with my kids and reminding them to wash your hands, you know, don't touch your mouth without washing your hands, sanitize your hands and go to the store, just be careful, don't go out in crowds, you know, stuff like that. For myself, I kind of got adjusted to that, and I kind of learned or I started to learn what we were being told how to take care of ourselves, take care of family. And I stepped into that stage and I felt a little more calmer, but still scared, you know, and it went on like that for a while and wiping everything down, sanitizing stuff, and it was just hard. It was like you couldn't relax, get relaxed anymore, you know. It was like, did you wash your hands? Did you do this when you went to the store? And just cause that worry. And but today we we all got our shots um and were careful, and it seems like that fear kind of went away. But when you hear about somebody talking, you know, there's COVID's rising, and you need to be careful, and it doesn't hit me as bad anymore, you know. I don't get this feeling so much in my whole body anymore. Because we knew how to handle it now, even though, but then you have to also remember that even though we know how to handle this now, doesn't mean that we're still immune to that, just because we're washing our hands and because we know never know just when someone walks into our home, because we're always doing these things, and like I was talking about earlier, we're a community type people, so in their ceremonies that we pick back, we stopped those for a while, then we pick them back up. So, like this past weekend we had our social dances, the butterfly dances, and there was a lot of people in the house. We were we had a long table of food, and people were just eating, eating, you know. We have to be careful, you know. And some of us tried to wear our mask, and some didn't wear their mask. It just, I guess, depends on who, but it was so crowded in our home, especially on Sunday. So those things we still have to be careful about, you know. Um, because we're always the hoopies are just like that. We we go to villages to watch dances, and there's always family there, so we go to their homes or clan relatives, or you know, they invite us to come eat. So we go, and then we're all in the plaza watching the dance, you know, there's so many ladies sitting down there in the bottom, and we're sitting close to each other with our chairs set up. We don't want to fear, but I think sometimes we forget, and then you think about it later, said, dang, I wasn't wearing my mask, you know, I should have worn my mask, you know. All those things start coming back to you again. Like this past weekend, I forgot to wear my mask and certain times. And so that was that's a scary part, you know, because we're we're we're such tight knit. The hope is our tight knit and we're never doing things really alone when we have to be out there in the public with ceremony or you know, things going on. Even weddings, you know, we we have ladies, men coming from all villages, you know, and so it's it's it's kind of like risky like that for us, you know. We can't really be by ourselves when there's things going on because uh everybody comes to help, even from all the other villages. So there's always a lot of people around. So the best we I do is just try to remember to wear my mask, and if I touch something, uh wash hands or sanitize or you know, just remember to do those things. So that's where I'm at now with that. I'm not so scared anymore, but I still in my mind I still know it's risky when you go out like that. So we still have to be careful. While some people like say, oh, those COVID shots don't help, you know. But I think in our case, they do help, you know, because we none of us have really gotten sick after those first times with my daughter and my son, you know. So it's kind of a little bit better feeling because now we have we also know that that's not gonna go away. It's gonna be part like just like a flu, you know, it's gonna come, but we have to protect ourselves. Uh I learned that I can't fear something that hasn't already happened, you know, that hasn't happened yet, I mean. And so I try to remind myself, talk to myself a lot, be good with that, and just try to calm down and not make myself sick over something that hasn't happened yet, you know, and just be careful.

Melinda Smith: 21:22

Well, thank you for sharing such a powerful and uh emotional reflection. If you feel comfortable, how did those moments of care and connection influence the way you continued your traditions, uh, how you supported your community during that time?

Charlene Joseph: 21:40

Well, like I said, from the first part, it was very hard. The first stage for me was very, very difficult. Top of that, they did stop the ceremonies for a while, even the sacred ones at my husband's village, because they're always in the kivas, and you know, their underground chambers where they do their sacred ceremonies, and they put a stop to those for a while. They kind of just did them in certain ways, they didn't totally stop, but they had to make adjustments here and there, and maybe not in the kiva. So that was okay. But here in Munkabi, we don't have the whole Hopi calendar intact anymore, but we still do things, and they did the same thing. The men, you know, they kind of stopped. Like the being that ceremonies and social dances, kachina dances, and so in that helped so we didn't have to be in crowds, you know. So that helped that part. But once we got back into it, it was like we have to be really cautious, you know, and we there's really no way out of not going ahead, you know, because that's how hoopies are. We have to, we we call that salia nanga in hoopi. That means people coming together to support, help one another, like during weddings, dances, everything. After that first stage for me, they were wearing um masks a lot. Everybody was masking up. So we continued again, and I was there helping. I would contribute to the dances like with my food, or just being there to support my husband or my kids when they're participating in certain things, or my daughters doing certain things. Just had to be mindful of how we take care of ourselves in doing our ceremonies and what we needed to do. But now it's like that part, that second phase has kind of gone away. So people were, I think, at the dance here were pretty comfortable with not wearing their masks. But some of us still wore them, but most people didn't wear masks. You know, there's just different ways that we have to try to protect ourselves, but still be able to participate. And you just keep praying. You know, it's really a lot of prayers too, you know, for not yourself only, but for your family and everyone else out there.

Melinda Smith: 24:05

Yeah, thank you. Yeah, thanks for sharing your powerful insight about how you leaned on your prayers and your cornmeal and your tools and your ceremonies. It's clear that the traditional practices played a really important role. So you've already touched on that a bit on the next question, but would you like to expand on what sustained you during the pandemic in your role as the traditional knowledge holder?

Charlene Joseph: 24:33

Yeah, first of all, my family, you know, like um for myself, you know, so I got like I said, I got COVID about four times. And first thought was my family, you know, so it's I can't let this, you know, get to me, you know. I've got to, I have to be okay. I'm okay, you know. Dawah's son's gonna take care of me, you know. I can't, you know, get sick, real sick. I'll get over this, and because I still have my kids here, I'm young, I saw my kids here, my grandkids, you know, I want to see my my great little ones, you know, do things like dance and stuff. When I get older, you know, so I'm gonna be here till, you know, I'm able to share. They are able to share those things with me when they grow up. And I still have a lot to teach them, you know, in the Hokie way. I still have a lot to teach them. So I please take care of me because I I'm still needed here, you know. Those are the things that I would talk to myself and I would talk to Dawah, our our father, the son, and then that's how I would pray to him. And each time I got that COVID, I didn't really get sick. You know, I was I was okay. But then like I said, I hear about other people really getting sick, and of course they passed on, you know. So I was one of the lucky ones. But I had a lot of belief, you know, that my father especially is um a very strong influence on my life because like I said, he was a priest, and I've learned so much from him, our traditional knowledge, and I leaned on his words, and he always says that, you know, if you treat people right, you know, even though even though maybe someone doesn't like you or they might say something mean to you, you know, they might leave you out of something. He says, You're gonna get hurt, but don't talk back, don't say anything back. You don't need to treat them the same way. You just continue to be good to them, be nice to them because everything comes back, is it? So don't don't fall fall down to their level, you know. You always be strong, you know, you you're a good person, you you're work you always look out for the family, and you know, you're um you're gonna be okay. You know, he would talk to me like that. So those are his words were the ones that are always leaned off, my dad's words. Then my grandpa too, my my maternal grandpa, my mom's dad, and my soul, my grandma, my mom's mom, they would talk to us like that too, you know, um tell us about the prophecies, um, what's gonna happen, what's gonna happen here throughout our life, further into the future. And when they were used to believe those things, I didn't believe them. So that's not gonna happen, you know. And then uh they did, they happened. And I said, how did they know these things? You know, well, well, Hoppi is an ancient tribe, they're an ancient people, and so all the knowledge they brought with them from wherever we came, that was given to them by somebody that was told to them. So they already knew these things. And they even he even my grandpa talked about California sinking, and this was way before it all happened. My grandpa died in 1981, and he used to say, California sink into the ocean, and then the water's gonna be closer to you guys here, you know. And I said, that's not gonna happen, you know. And then not too long ago, we hear about California sinking, you know, the lands going into the water, and that's just and then the other thing that he used to say was at that time we didn't have like telephone poles, lines, and airplanes, and too much. And they said, one day you're gonna be just here, and then before you know it, you're gonna be way over there on the other side of Hoppy, like maybe on the other side of the earth, you know. And he said, These there's gonna be these birds that are gonna be flying in the sky like with wings. They look at that, and he was talking about airplanes, and that happened, and then talking about spider webs, you know, they're gonna be all over over here. They look like spider webs. And this that's the telephone lines that light poles, that light, you know, APS lines that we have. And so they knew all these things, and I used to doubt, doubt all that, you know, and that I'm seeing it happen. And so that was a real learning experience for me. So, how did they know all that? You know, and so I quit doubting, you know, everything that our grandparents, my father, the elders told us, it's happening right around us. And with this sickness, they talked, they already knew that something's gonna come and try to wake us up, you know, but we still aren't listening. You know, we we think we humans, we know everything, we think we're doing things the right way. We're not listening to nature. So those are the things that um I thought about when we were going through this COVID. They knew this, so you know, it's it's gonna happen where they already knew they already foretold it, they warned us. But our hopias have already gone there to warn what's gonna happen if we don't pay attention to the environment. But of course, they didn't listen because all they want is the money. That's all they want is the money. They don't care about our mother earth, they don't care about our environment, you know. They think it's gonna all be okay, but it's not. They're trying to warn us with these tornadoes, hurricanes, you know, earthquakes now, and they're not getting it. They're not getting it. And so my son turns YouTube on, and it's all on there when those hopies they go to the world something. They went over there and they talked, they got on stage and talked to the audience, and it didn't mean nothing. But now we've got other people out there, non-hopis, non-natives, that are realizing it now, which is good. It's very good that they're realizing that yes, we have to take care of Mother Nature, we have to respect because everything is alive, you know. Water's not just water, grass is not just grass, rocks are not just rocks, sand is not just sand. They all have a purpose here. Like us humans, we have a purpose here. And the Hopi purpose is to take care of the land. That's the covenant we make with the caretaker of this land when we first came here. We we got his permission to live with him on this land here. And he had, we made a covenant with him, and that's why Hopi's are supposed to be caretakers of the land. And that's why these men, Hopi men, the Hopi leaders went to that conference, that big conference, I think it was in Germany, to warn, but they weren't listening, you know. But we didn't give up when we're not giving up and we're still talking about it. We still try to take it, uh, put it out there. And we're still trying to live that life and we haven't forgotten. And he's that caretaker is the one that said we have to, we have to live by his loss if we want to live here with him. You know, and one of them is to plant our foods, the corn, the melons, the squash, the beans. And that's what we hope we still do. We still do that, you know, and and that's just something that hope he men do, you know. Um, but they have a conversation at any dances or something, maybe they're on the rooftop once in a while. I'm up there, you know, with that with my husband. They would ask each other, you know, how's your crops doing? You know, and they and they will say, Oh, they're doing really good, they're really nice. And then somebody might say, Oh, they're not doing too good. It needs to rain, you know. So those are the conversations that go on among Hopi men. And then the Hopi women, you know, when their husbands or sons or clan men members bring them corn or other beans, whatever we grow, you know, they're very happy and they accept it as the corn as their children, you know, and they take very good care of them. And so we dry them and we we uh use them throughout the year, or maybe for the next seven generations or not next seven years, I mean. So, yeah, so they do all these things already, but we don't listen, we're not listening. But I'm glad to know that um finally some people are listening out there, but the governments still do what they want to do because all they want to do is dig out the lands, you know, for money, just because they want money. That's it. And they want their it's greed, too much greed out there. They can't just take what they need, they want to do more and more, and the more they're doing it, the more they're damaging our environment and our mother earth. So, but these are the things I learned from my my elders, my grandparents, my father, my aunts, and I still carry those things with me very strongly.

Melinda Smith: 34:18

It's powerful to hear how your faith and your traditions and these teachings and stories from your father and ancestors helped you and your family to stay strong during that time. Building on that, what were your sources of strength or hope then? And is there a memory that stands out to you?

Charlene Joseph: 34:38

My faith, my hope is still like family prayers, and your family is very important, you know, and they keep us here, they keep us going, like especially when you have a baby in the house, you know, and that baby keeps everything alive for you. We have a big, a little girl in the house right now, my great-granddaughter, and she keeps everything alive for us, you know. Without kids, we really have no purpose. Without children, we have no purpose, you know, and that happened already in Hopi a long time ago. We have uh we have our own, like a Hopi, not I don't want to call it Christmas, but the same concept of giving, receiving for children, especially. We we have our own hoopi toys, and we have a bean dance ceremony that happens during uh February when we bring the katinas, the rain deities back into the villages, and they bring hoopi toys for little boys and girls who are not initiated into the catena society yet. At that time when I guess something happened during that time, and there were no more children left in that village. And when those two catinas, we called them booklists, they're like the ones that bring all the gifts for the children. They brought all their gifts for the children and poopy toys, but there were no little kids to give them to, and those catinas were crying where the all our kids go, you know, what happened to our children, and so they had to reflect on all what happened before that and why, and then so they had to do um a very special sacred ceremony to start the flourishment of bringing our children back, and it happened, the children came back, this woman started having children, and and then the village became alive again, and so that's how we know that there's no purpose if there's no more children. And so when I see my granddaughter, great-granddaughter, you know, here it's just so fulfilling, you know. She keeps us happy, she keeps us laughing, she keeps us in wonder, you know. And then you start thinking about the future of the I wonder how it's gonna be for these children when we're gone. You know, are they going to carry these on the way we're doing it now, you know? And it's kind of sad because they don't really speak Hopi anymore. They understand it, but they don't really actually speak the language. And it's it's sad in that way. But they still participate and they understand what you're saying to them, but they don't talk it. And that's the sad part. You know, I said I wonder if they are gonna take it seriously enough someday where they're gonna want to really speak the language so they can continue the hopi way of life. That's what I focus on. My hope is for my great-grandkids to get to that point where they can make a commitment and learn Hopi and continue to do the Hopi way of life because that's who we are. And if they don't continue that, there's gonna be no more hopi anymore. Because it's only gonna be a name that we give ourselves, you know, Hopi. But what does that mean? You know, what does it mean? You know, maybe if they keep planting, maybe that's one thing, but the ceremonies have to be carried on. So that's my hope, and that's what I'm thinking about for my grandkids, for my family here, for the uncles, Daryl and Garrett, and the rest of the family, my extended family. That's what I hope for. But that's what keeps me going right now is to teach them, you know, try to teach them and um and I'm at that point, I'm not young anymore, and I get tired fast. And I was talking to my girls, told them that you know, you girls are gonna have to take over, you know. You're gonna have to step in and just take over because I'm I'm older now and I get tired fast now. And I'm not that young chick anymore where I can stay up all night and work all night and keep going the next day. So they auntie says, Yeah, mom, we know that, you know, and and they did really good over the weekend, you know, for the butterfly dance. And I was real proud. And then my other granddaughter came, um, Daryl's oldest daughter, she came and she she really helps, you know. She's she knows what to do too. She doesn't live here, but she lives in Phoenix, but she she's real helpful. So those are the things that, you know, wow, you know, they're they're doing it now, and they're gonna continue to do that. And they learn how to make big, so that's one of the most important foods, ceremonial foods that we always have to have. And they've they've learned how to do that. So I'm really happy. So those are my hopes for my family, and it makes me feel very, very happy to see them doing stuff like that. And well, you know, I'm glad they're feeling that, you know, they know that they have to continue this for us, for the family, for the brothers and for the siblings and the rest of the family, you know. So that's my hope and my hope. I'm seeing it now happening. And, you know, still every morning, you know, prayers, you know, for those things that are coming about, you know, and I'm seeing happen and the spiritual side of it, you know, it's it's it's there, you know. So that's the only but but my hope also is to have them actually speak the language, and that would make it really good for me. I would be so happy.

Melinda Smith: 40:29

And they try, you know. Thank you. It's uh beautiful how your you know, your family and prayers provided strength and how the presence of babies and children gave you a strong sense of purpose. Their role in sustaining hope and connection is truly special. I agree. And language, too, as you shared, uh sounds like a very deep source of strength and knowing that it's going to live and carry on by future generations. Sounds like it brings hope that everything will be okay. So, with these sources of strength in mind, how did your experience during the pandemic impact you personally, professionally, and within your community?

Charlene Joseph: 41:11

Well, you know, it made me realize how how everyone is important in their own way. It made me realize how I should be good to people, no matter what. Sometimes it's hard to do. But, you know, I'm I have to be mindful of how I treat people. And I'm not mean or anything, you know, I'm nice to everybody, but sometimes when you're angry or appreciated about something, you know, sometimes something slips, you know. And but I remind even people, if they don't, they're not friendly to me or something, I'm always gonna be friendly to them because you never know what's gonna happen, you know. You never know what a person is going through in their everyday life. If we don't know that, we just see them out there and we think they're doing okay, you know, but we don't know. You so you just and I tell this to my kids, you'll be good to everyone, no matter what. Just be even if they don't say hi to you, just say hello or hi, acknowledge them in some way. It doesn't matter, you know, just do it because if you're not that kind of person, you'll it won't be hard for you to do. You know, you just go out and you'll say hello. It's good to see you, you know. That's what's a really very strong thing that I I went through, you know, and because you know we all have people that don't like us for some one reason or another, you know, but we sometimes we don't know why. So that's what I worked on, and I think I'm doing good. I mean, it changed. I could, I could, I can see the change in myself because for a while there, you know, I I used to feel, you know, pushed aside, you know, like even by family members sometimes, and it's not a good feeling. So I say, Oh, I'm just gonna stay out of their way, you know. I'm not even gonna bother with them, you know. It's okay, which really it wasn't okay, you know, but I've learned that, you know, it's okay. I don't need to take that in anymore, you know. I need to just be who, be who I am, and hopefully they'll see that, you know. And that's the most powerful way to handle this because they're still my siblings, they're still my community members, and it's good to be good to everyone. Like, because we don't know, maybe they're just having a bad day that day and they won't say nothing to you. It's okay, you know, that just just be kind, you know, be kind, you know, because we're all connected in some way in Hopi. You know, we're relatives, we're distant relatives, we're first cousins, we're second cousins, we're aunts to somebody, we're uh mothers to our our sisters, maternal class, sisters, kids. So we all have a some kind of connection. There's always that connection in Hopi that we have. No matter which village we go to, there's a connection with some somebody there in one way or another. So just, you know, be good to everyone. And people will talk about people sometimes, and you just have to say what you think, you know, said don't, you know, just be kind. You know, we all have something that we need to work on, but we all have something good too, and leave it at that. And I had to do that over the weekend with one of my my my grand, not my grandkids, but my nieces, and and it was okay, you know. I think they they realized, you know, what they were doing, saying, and it's okay. We all need we're all good in one way, we all have things to work on, you know. But those are the strong things that I've realized about myself that this COVID, you know, because we've lost so many family, family, relatives, friends, and we should be good to one another. You know, we shouldn't be holding grudges in like some people's life. They don't want nothing to do with you, don't have nothing to do with them. But that's a conflict right there, you know. So no, that's not how it should be. You just continue to be nice to those people because, like I said earlier, you don't know what they're going through. You know, maybe they just need some help, maybe they need to talk to somebody. There's something going on in their life that you know they're not feeling good about, you know. That's why a lot of times I think people feel that way. They're they have a hard time being friendly or good to people. So that was a major thing I think I learned from this COVID, and also to make a point to go visit people, you know, like especially family. You just go visit if you're close by their house, make a point to stop by and say hi. I just came to say hi, you know. And that's what one of my um cousins, my first cousin, he does that. He's an uncle to my kids, and so he would just come, just I mean, it a short, a short period of time, he will come just to say hello and how are you guys doing, and and then uh he might be on his way to the wellness center, but he'll make a point to stop here because we're right by the highway and he comes right up this way. I just came by to check on you guys and see how you guys are doing. I'm on my way to go exercise, and just for that, even two minutes, he'll just come in the door and ask, and then okay, I better go now, you know. And that makes a lot of difference. You know, he comes because he cares. No matter how long he stays here, a minute, 10 minutes, 15 minutes, you know, he cares, and that means a lot to me, you know. He comes here to check on us just because he cares. And that's I think what matters, you know, after all the stuff that we went through, that really matters that people come to check on you, even though it's just for a minute. So that's the other thing that I'm really appreciative of people like that. That when they come by and visit and talk, and I do the same thing, you know, just go somebody's house and just make a quick stop and say, How are you guys doing? You know, I brought this for you, or you know, well, enough of something, then we can use it up, then I go take it, you know. And so those kinds of things we we share and we give and check on each other. So that's what I learned of from COVID, you know, just to be good to one another and to take, try to take good care of myself so I can be here with my grandkids for a longer period of time, you know, and and not fear so much of whatever comes around because this is stuff that we already heard from our elders, our prophecies that these things are gonna happen. So knowing that now I accept what comes, you know, like with what's going on with COVID now. I accepted it now. And I don't get so scared anymore. My body doesn't freeze or my body doesn't get all anxious or nervous or, you know, so I think just knowing so you don't fear anymore. So but but it's still a process that you go through, a stage, you know, that you go through. And those were some of my stages and what were really bad too. I'm okay now, but still you have to be mindful and be cautious, you know, so you don't pick that COVID up and expose the family.

Melinda Smith: 48:28

Yeah, that really speaks to the kind of person you are, you know, the way you carry yourself in kindness and you teach your kids and your grandkids to that really stays with people, I think. So that's beautiful. So, with that said, what do you hope others, especially younger generations, take away from everything you experienced?

Charlene Joseph: 48:50

Uh well, I hope that they've uh picked up on some of the things that we've all gone through, you know, because they've had their own experiences. But with me, you know, I think they're I feel like they're really more grateful to me and they express those things to me, you know, like and they're taking good care of me, you know, they look out for me, all my kids, even my grandkids, you know, and and they're they're um they're showing me a lot of care, you know, like they're so happy to see me. And they say that if I'm not at home when they come, it's not the same. And the first thing that come in when they come into their house, to the house, and I'm not here, they say, where's soo? So means grandma and Hopi. And they tell me, So oh, where were you? You know, it wasn't the same when you weren't here, you know. So, oh, I'm sorry, you know, I had to go through this and this, and but I'm here now, you know. But yeah, it's good to see you, so oh, you know, and they'll give me hugs and are you okay, you know, you should just rest and you know, stuff like that. I'm not that old yet, you know. Yeah, but you took care of us all these years, and you're uh not that young anymore, and you just need to rest now and you let us take care of you, you know. Those are I think the things that they're showing gratitude, and it makes me feel good, you know, that they're um grateful for all the things that you know that have has to happen, you know, for all the things that we do in Hopi and whatever else we do out there, you know, in our social lives or school or you know, all that stuff. I think that's what they're taking away, you know. And um one of my grandsons, uh Daryl's son, I think what he learned, what I'm seeing is uh his they didn't grow up out here, but they they come to help their grandpa with uh ranching, and then they come during bean dance time because they got initiated into the Godina Society. And but one of them, the second son, is the one that's really picking up, trying to learn Hopi. And I'm just very proud of him, you know. Um, he came all the way from Las Cruces, New Mexico, just to participate in a butterfly dance. I knew his heart was in it Sunday. I asked Saturday night, I asked him, so what time do you plan to go back? You know, because I wanted to get food ready for him, you know, to take back with him. And uh he says, ah he said, ah man, I think I am just gonna have to go back right after lunch. He goes, Oh, okay, you know, kind of feeling sad. And because I knew he was really enjoying himself, you know. He was all dressed up in his traditional clothing and his face marked and his head bent. Okay, and so well, I had this for you. Make sure you don't forget because we'll be down at the lower village, and we're all gonna be down there, so I'll put him in here. Just don't forget, and then so time after lunch came, and then around three o'clock, four o'clock, Dylan, it's way after lunch because it takes, like he said, about six hours to get to Las Cruces from here, and he has to work Monday morning. And I know, I know. So he just shakes his head. I'm just having a hard time, you know. I know, son, you know, it's really hard to leave when you are so involved in your culture like this. It's I know what I know that feeling when you have to go back to school or you have to leave early because you live far away, and and so I know how you feel, you know, but it's okay, you'll be okay, I said at him. So he didn't leave till like evening time, like around five or six. So he stayed the whole day on Sunday, and he didn't leave from here till dark time. And I said, Dylan, I know how it feels to leave when there's you're having such a good time participating in in especially like social dances, you know, whatever we do. I know how you feel because I done do that. Then you don't want to go. You want to just forget about life out there and be here, you know. But this is only this is gonna end this day. And so what are you gonna do the next day or the next day? You still have to go to work and make your living, earn a living on that side, you know. But you know, it's hard, he said. Yeah, so I says he shook his head's hard. It's hard to go, you know. So he finally left. And next day I called him and uh asked him what time did you get there? And he said he got there late, but it's okay. I'm at work, I made it to work, you know. So it's good to see that that he's taking that from here to there, and then appreciating that I'm here for him, supporting him, and and I'm and I told him, grandson, that's what I'm here for. You know, I'm here to take care of you all, and you know, I'm glad that you're participating and you're trying hard to learn the Hopi ways, and you're doing really well, I said. And he's learning Hopi words too. So and he always asks what something means. So I'm teaching him that also. So it works both ways, you know, not just from me, but from them, what they're taking from it too. So it's it's it's good. It's I think, you know, it's everybody's kind of learning things in their own ways, certain ways, you know. But that his that's the very a very strong one for me with my grandson.

Melinda Smith: 54:30

Yeah, I really appreciate you opening up about that. It's touching to hear how much joy it brings you to have, you know, your the your future generation take the time to learn the language in ceremonial ways. What message would you share with someone who is preparing to serve their community in times of crisis?

Charlene Joseph: 54:50

I guess I would say um be there for your community, your family, however you can be there, you know, however you can help, but at the same time be cautious, cautious and mindful of what is happening at that time, the crisis, and look up for yourself and do things in a safe way and not get hurt, and just do the best you can to help others out and feel good about helping. Don't help if you don't feel good about helping because that doesn't mean anything. You have to, if you want to help, you have to help from the heart, not just from up here, because it's something that people do, you know. You have to want to do it, and it has to come from your heart. And when some when things come from your heart, things always work out in a good way. And it shows and it makes you feel happy that that's that's what you want to do and you got it done. So just give from your heart, but also be mindful of what is happening at that time. Take care of yourself also and just you know take care of how you're approaching those things and find a safe, safe way to do those things in at turn times of crisis. You know, and if there's something you can't do, like we're at different ages, you know, and there's certain things you probably can't do, but there are some other things that you can still do to help, you know, like maybe with food, maybe with uh blankets or or just checking on people, calling them and just keeping that communication open somehow. That's how I would do it. That's what I would, you know, tell my kids, you know, just help in some way. Especially with the elders, you know, go um chop wood for them. Because a lot of us still br uh use uh wood to heat up our homes during a winter, or go empty their trash, you know, go rig their yard, or just go ask what they need help with. You don't have to be told, just go go go ask and find out what they need help with. That would be the message I would tell my kids and whoever.

Melinda Smith: 57:11

Thank you, Charlene, for sharing your stories and your wisdom and the work you continue to do for your community. Your kindness and the humble way you walk through life are truly felt. And your reflections offer a deeper understanding of how Native communities responded, you know, with resilience and care and cultural strength during a time of great uncertainty. So thank you. This is Voices of Native Nations in the Southwest during the COVID-19 pandemic. And we're honored to share these conversations with you. You can listen to more episodes on Bus Route. Thank you for joining us for Voices of Native Nations in the Southwest during the COVID-19 pandemic podcast series. This podcast was developed by the Center for Community Health and Engaged Research at Northern Arizona University with support from Project Hope, a global health and humanitarian organization transforming the health and well being of communities around the world. For more information and links to resources related to this series, please check the podcast description. Thanks again for listening, and we hope you'll continue to learn from and share these powerful stories.